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Re: Ajax-style applications without Javascript

3 replies
John Nilsson
Joined: 2008-12-20,
User offline. Last seen 42 years 45 weeks ago.


Hibernate doesnt remove the need for SQL. It's the other way around. If you have no need for SQL you can use Hibernate. OTOH if you don't need SQL you don't need an RDB and are probaly better of with one of the NoSQL offerings.

Regarding the impedence missmatch i find that besides the problems from using the wrong persistance technology the issue is more of a runtime issue than language issue. When working with a db you have a live system. Integrity checks are done against the dynamic state of the system. When working with Java or Scala you work offline and can only verify static properties.

IMHO if you want to fix the impedance missmatch you need to design a live system where both data and behavior be both statically and dynamically checked.  To do this you need good branching and merging for live systems. Checkout VPRIs Worlds for example.

BR,
John

Sent from my phone

Den 19 jun 2011 12:51 skrev "Antoras" <mail [at] antoras [dot] de>:
Robert Wills
Joined: 2009-03-04,
User offline. Last seen 32 weeks 4 days ago.
Re: Ajax-style applications without Javascript
There doesn't seem to have been much action with Links for a few years, but it has been influential, most notably for introducing the idea of Formlets: using applicative functors for form processing.  The Websharper Framework (in F#) is heavily inspired by Links, and it would be nice to see that sort of thing in Scala.  GWT doesn't give you the same amount of type safety as a  framework like Websharper, and that extra type safety means you can do some very clever things such as compiling a whole application to Javascript -- not just the widget set.
-Rob

On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 2:25 PM, John Nilsson <john [at] milsson [dot] nu> wrote:


Hibernate doesnt remove the need for SQL. It's the other way around. If you have no need for SQL you can use Hibernate. OTOH if you don't need SQL you don't need an RDB and are probaly better of with one of the NoSQL offerings.

Regarding the impedence missmatch i find that besides the problems from using the wrong persistance technology the issue is more of a runtime issue than language issue. When working with a db you have a live system. Integrity checks are done against the dynamic state of the system. When working with Java or Scala you work offline and can only verify static properties.

IMHO if you want to fix the impedance missmatch you need to design a live system where both data and behavior be both statically and dynamically checked.  To do this you need good branching and merging for live systems. Checkout VPRIs Worlds for example.

BR,
John

Sent from my phone

Den 19 jun 2011 12:51 skrev "Antoras" <mail [at] antoras [dot] de>:

Joshua.Suereth
Joined: 2008-09-02,
User offline. Last seen 32 weeks 5 days ago.
Re: Ajax-style applications without Javascript

At one point I had designs on giving Scala a Google closure-compiler friendly js backend.   The idea would be to have a mechanism to load type info for the and popular js libs (ala externs in google closure).  Then you could write scala code that directly manipulates these and it would compiler to closure type-annotated js that the closure compiler could fully optimise.

During 2.8 the big issue was Dynamic types.  The idea could be brought.to temporary fruition now with Martin's introduction of the Dynamic trait.  It's more a matter of time

On Jun 19, 2011 10:05 AM, "Robert Wills" <wrwills [at] gmail [dot] com> wrote:
> There doesn't seem to have been much action with Links for a few years, but
> it has been influential, most notably for introducing the idea of Formlets:
> using applicative functors for form processing. The Websharper Framework
> (in F#) is heavily inspired by Links, and it would be nice to see that sort
> of thing in Scala. GWT doesn't give you the same amount of type safety as a
> framework like Websharper, and that extra type safety means you can do some
> very clever things such as compiling a whole application to Javascript --
> not just the widget set.
>
> -Rob
>
> On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 2:25 PM, John Nilsson <john [at] milsson [dot] nu> wrote:
>
>>
>> Hibernate doesnt remove the need for SQL. It's the other way around. If you
>> have no need for SQL you can use Hibernate. OTOH if you don't need SQL you
>> don't need an RDB and are probaly better of with one of the NoSQL offerings.
>>
>> Regarding the impedence missmatch i find that besides the problems from
>> using the wrong persistance technology the issue is more of a runtime issue
>> than language issue. When working with a db you have a live system.
>> Integrity checks are done against the dynamic state of the system. When
>> working with Java or Scala you work offline and can only verify static
>> properties.
>>
>> IMHO if you want to fix the impedance missmatch you need to design a live
>> system where both data and behavior be both statically and dynamically
>> checked. To do this you need good branching and merging for live systems.
>> Checkout VPRIs Worlds for example.
>>
>> BR,
>> John
>>
>> Sent from my phone
>> Den 19 jun 2011 12:51 skrev "Antoras" <mail [at] antoras [dot] de>:
>>
Robert Wills
Joined: 2009-03-04,
User offline. Last seen 32 weeks 4 days ago.
Re: Ajax-style applications without Javascript
These projects were seeing some activitiy a few months ago: 
https://github.com/alvaroc1/s2js https://github.com/efleming969/scalosure
They also targeted the closure compiler.
From the sounds of it, you're talking about doing it without a compiler plugin.  That's what the Dynamic trait would make possible --  is that correct? 
-Rob

On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 3:57 PM, Josh Suereth <joshua [dot] suereth [at] gmail [dot] com> wrote:

At one point I had designs on giving Scala a Google closure-compiler friendly js backend.   The idea would be to have a mechanism to load type info for the and popular js libs (ala externs in google closure).  Then you could write scala code that directly manipulates these and it would compiler to closure type-annotated js that the closure compiler could fully optimise.

During 2.8 the big issue was Dynamic types.  The idea could be brought.to temporary fruition now with Martin's introduction of the Dynamic trait.  It's more a matter of time

On Jun 19, 2011 10:05 AM, "Robert Wills" <wrwills [at] gmail [dot] com> wrote:
> There doesn't seem to have been much action with Links for a few years, but
> it has been influential, most notably for introducing the idea of Formlets:
> using applicative functors for form processing. The Websharper Framework
> (in F#) is heavily inspired by Links, and it would be nice to see that sort
> of thing in Scala. GWT doesn't give you the same amount of type safety as a
> framework like Websharper, and that extra type safety means you can do some
> very clever things such as compiling a whole application to Javascript --
> not just the widget set.
>
> -Rob
>
> On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 2:25 PM, John Nilsson <john [at] milsson [dot] nu> wrote:
>
>>
>> Hibernate doesnt remove the need for SQL. It's the other way around. If you
>> have no need for SQL you can use Hibernate. OTOH if you don't need SQL you
>> don't need an RDB and are probaly better of with one of the NoSQL offerings.
>>
>> Regarding the impedence missmatch i find that besides the problems from
>> using the wrong persistance technology the issue is more of a runtime issue
>> than language issue. When working with a db you have a live system.
>> Integrity checks are done against the dynamic state of the system. When
>> working with Java or Scala you work offline and can only verify static
>> properties.
>>
>> IMHO if you want to fix the impedance missmatch you need to design a live
>> system where both data and behavior be both statically and dynamically
>> checked. To do this you need good branching and merging for live systems.
>> Checkout VPRIs Worlds for example.
>>
>> BR,
>> John
>>
>> Sent from my phone
>> Den 19 jun 2011 12:51 skrev "Antoras" <mail [at] antoras [dot] de>:
>>

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