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The Verdict

7 replies
Randall R Schulz
Joined: 2008-12-16,
User offline. Last seen 1 year 29 weeks ago.

Hi,

Thanks again for all the thoughtful discussion on my questions about how
to guide our engineers and leadership through the process of choosing
between Scala and Java for our back-end service development.

Our VP of Technology contacted some Scala development shops for their
experiences and reported them to the group and two of our developers
did an A / B programming comparison task, one using Scala, the other
using Java. After presenting their work and having a Q and A (the
culmination of a few days of individual investigation by interested
engineers), the group consensus was that we would proceed with Scala.

It is interesting to note that between Tuesday evening and Friday
afternoon, the roughly 50 / 50 split became quite heavily weighted in
favor of Scala.

The matter of guidelines and possible restrictions on the use of
language features remain to be resolved, but I'm naturally very pleased
with this decision.

Again, thank you all for your feedback and analysis.

Randall Schulz

Alex Cruise
Joined: 2008-12-17,
User offline. Last seen 2 years 26 weeks ago.
Re: The Verdict
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 10:11 PM, Randall R Schulz <rschulz [at] sonic [dot] net> wrote:
After presenting their work and having a Q and A (the
culmination of a few days of individual investigation by interested
engineers), the group consensus was that we would proceed with Scala.

It is interesting to note that between Tuesday evening and Friday
afternoon, the roughly 50 / 50 split became quite heavily weighted in
favor of Scala.

WOOT!
-0XE1A!!!
H-star Development
Joined: 2010-04-14,
User offline. Last seen 2 years 26 weeks ago.
Re: The Verdict

scala wins. fatality.

Am 11.06.2011 07:11, schrieb Randall R Schulz:
> Hi,
>
> Thanks again for all the thoughtful discussion on my questions about how
> to guide our engineers and leadership through the process of choosing
> between Scala and Java for our back-end service development.
>
> Our VP of Technology contacted some Scala development shops for their
> experiences and reported them to the group and two of our developers
> did an A / B programming comparison task, one using Scala, the other
> using Java. After presenting their work and having a Q and A (the
> culmination of a few days of individual investigation by interested
> engineers), the group consensus was that we would proceed with Scala.
>
> It is interesting to note that between Tuesday evening and Friday
> afternoon, the roughly 50 / 50 split became quite heavily weighted in
> favor of Scala.
>
> The matter of guidelines and possible restrictions on the use of
> language features remain to be resolved, but I'm naturally very pleased
> with this decision.
>
> Again, thank you all for your feedback and analysis.
>
>
> Randall Schulz
>

Viktor Klang
Joined: 2008-12-17,
User offline. Last seen 1 year 27 weeks ago.
Re: The Verdict
Great to hear! :-)

On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 7:11 AM, Randall R Schulz <rschulz [at] sonic [dot] net> wrote:
Hi,

Thanks again for all the thoughtful discussion on my questions about how
to guide our engineers and leadership through the process of choosing
between Scala and Java for our back-end service development.

Our VP of Technology contacted some Scala development shops for their
experiences and reported them to the group and two of our developers
did an A / B programming comparison task, one using Scala, the other
using Java. After presenting their work and having a Q and A (the
culmination of a few days of individual investigation by interested
engineers), the group consensus was that we would proceed with Scala.

It is interesting to note that between Tuesday evening and Friday
afternoon, the roughly 50 / 50 split became quite heavily weighted in
favor of Scala.

The matter of guidelines and possible restrictions on the use of
language features remain to be resolved, but I'm naturally very pleased
with this decision.

Again, thank you all for your feedback and analysis.


Randall Schulz



--
Viktor Klang

Akka Tech LeadTypesafe - Enterprise-Grade Scala from the Experts

Twitter: @viktorklang
Kevin Wright 2
Joined: 2010-05-30,
User offline. Last seen 26 weeks 4 days ago.
Re: The Verdict
Out of curiosity,,, What task did you use for the A/B test?

2011/6/11 √iktor Ҡlang <viktor [dot] klang [at] gmail [dot] com>
Great to hear! :-)

On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 7:11 AM, Randall R Schulz <rschulz [at] sonic [dot] net> wrote:
Hi,

Thanks again for all the thoughtful discussion on my questions about how
to guide our engineers and leadership through the process of choosing
between Scala and Java for our back-end service development.

Our VP of Technology contacted some Scala development shops for their
experiences and reported them to the group and two of our developers
did an A / B programming comparison task, one using Scala, the other
using Java. After presenting their work and having a Q and A (the
culmination of a few days of individual investigation by interested
engineers), the group consensus was that we would proceed with Scala.

It is interesting to note that between Tuesday evening and Friday
afternoon, the roughly 50 / 50 split became quite heavily weighted in
favor of Scala.

The matter of guidelines and possible restrictions on the use of
language features remain to be resolved, but I'm naturally very pleased
with this decision.

Again, thank you all for your feedback and analysis.


Randall Schulz



--
Viktor Klang

Akka Tech LeadTypesafe - Enterprise-Grade Scala from the Experts

Twitter: @viktorklang



--
Kevin Wright

gtalk / msn : kev [dot] lee [dot] wright [at] gmail [dot] comkev [dot] lee [dot] wright [at] gmail [dot] commail: kevin [dot] wright [at] scalatechnology [dot] com
vibe / skype: kev.lee.wrightquora: http://www.quora.com/Kevin-Wright
twitter: @thecoda

"My point today is that, if we wish to count lines of code, we should not regard them as "lines produced" but as "lines spent": the current conventional wisdom is so foolish as to book that count on the wrong side of the ledger" ~ Dijkstra
Randall R Schulz
Joined: 2008-12-16,
User offline. Last seen 1 year 29 weeks ago.
Re: The Verdict

Kevin,

On Saturday June 11 2011, Kevin Wright wrote:
> Out of curiosity,,, What task did you use for the A/B test?
>
> ...

One of the new services we first decided to implement in Scala is a
logging mediator. It monitors a database (RDBMS) and distributes new
entries to downstream processors. (That's about all I know about it).
Apparently its a fairly high-volume application because one aspect of
the implementation was the need to accommodate "batching" or "clumping"
of the entries into HTTP transactions on the downstream side. So they
had to write a "batching queue" that had a couple of time parameters
(to rate-limit the pushes and to limit how long entries would be held
during periods of low activity) and a high-water-mark parameter (to
force out queued entries). The database entries would only be removed
once there was confirmation that they'd been moved on downstream
successfully.

The first implementation was in Scala with Akka actors. The second
developer reimplemented this in Java also using Akka actors. So in some
sense it was a genuine A/B test, though using Akka actors for the Java
side was a little cheating in favor of the Java code. And I even caught
my boss (one of the long-time Scala proponents and the guy that brought
it into our shop, leading to my hiring) helping the Java guy improve
his code before the group review!

I reviewed the Scala implementation and the whole thing was less than
400 lines of code. There were quite a few case classes and objects, so
one can guess that these exhibited considerable bloat on the Java side.
Likewise, the actor interactions were rather more verbose in Java.

Anyway, while the example didn't really highlight Scala that much per
se, it was still apparent to the other engineers that it was a boon.

Randall Schulz

Randall R Schulz
Joined: 2008-12-16,
User offline. Last seen 1 year 29 weeks ago.
Re: The Verdict

On Friday June 10 2011, HamsterofDeath wrote:
> scala wins. fatality.
> ...

I'm not entirely sure how to interpret that, but...

When the matter of a "Killer App" to establish Scala's street cred came
up (first at Scala Days and later here on the list), I said to my boss
that I wasn't particularly favorably disposed towards the notion of
killer apps (in general), but did think that Scala should kill Java...

(And please, I know that without Java there'd be no Scala and if it died
now—which it cannot—other JVM languages would suffer, too.)

Randall Schulz

sergei
Joined: 2011-03-29,
User offline. Last seen 1 year 20 weeks ago.
Re: The Verdict

Congratulations!

On Jun 10, 10:11 pm, Randall R Schulz wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Thanks again for all the thoughtful discussion on my questions about how
> to guide our engineers and leadership through the process of choosing
> between Scala and Java for our back-end service development.
>
> Our VP of Technology contacted some Scala development shops for their
> experiences and reported them to the group and two of our developers
> did an A / B programming comparison task, one using Scala, the other
> using Java. After presenting their work and having a Q and A (the
> culmination of a few days of individual investigation by interested
> engineers), the group consensus was that we would proceed with Scala.
>
> It is interesting to note that between Tuesday evening and Friday
> afternoon, the roughly 50 / 50 split became quite heavily weighted in
> favor of Scala.
>
> The matter of guidelines and possible restrictions on the use of
> language features remain to be resolved, but I'm naturally very pleased
> with this decision.
>
> Again, thank you all for your feedback and analysis.
>
> Randall Schulz

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