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Yammer moving away from Scala

55 replies
Joshua.Suereth
Joined: 2008-09-02,
User offline. Last seen 32 weeks 5 days ago.
Re: Yammer moving away from Scala

There are far less condescending ways to make a point.  Messages like this exchange will be moderated for 'tone'.   You'll be given an opportunity to rephrase a post to get your point across.  Different opinions are welcome on the list.  Veiled insults are not.  No matter who they are aimed at.

On Dec 3, 2011 6:05 PM, "rkuhn" <google [at] rkuhn [dot] info> wrote:
Yes, of course it would. But the motivation was not the point of view but the attitude with which it is displayed.

Regards,

Roland

Am Samstag, 3. Dezember 2011 23:50:00 UTC+1 schrieb John Nilsson:

If you argue for being tolerant against people with a different view point I guess it would be incredibly arrogant to ban people with the "wrong" view point, wouldn't it?

BR,
John

Den 3 dec 2011 20:23 skrev "Kenneth McDonald" <ykke [dot] [dot] [dot] [at] gmail [dot] com>:

The point that he makes that (to me, at least) resonates most strongly relates to the Scala community. I don't know how to fix it, but we really do need to fix it.

It must be possible to create a supportive and welcoming environment for people coming to the language. Right now, the Scala community is nothing like that.

Sadly, I must agree. However, I think it's a fairly small number of people who give this impression. I have posted many inane, newbie questions and received polite, thorough responses from people who I'm sure have better things to do with their time.
So I'm going to call what you've pointed out the "FP" response, though it's not limited to FP, and certainly many hardcore FP-ers don't share this mindset. Because Scala is good at supporting different programming paradigms (FP, Actors, whatever), it can attract people who are locked into those mindsets; and if some of those people decide to move their attitude to the mailing lists, the result is pretty nasty.
I can think of only two responses. I'm reluctant to even suggest the second, but think it must be said:
1) Have Martin periodically post a message reminding everyone that Scala is a multiparadigm language, and asking for tolerance for other points of view.
2) If necessary, banning people from a list. I don't like it, but if the atmosphere on the lists might cause Scala to fail, I think it's worth considering.
Ken

 

roland.kuhn
Joined: 2011-02-21,
User offline. Last seen 35 weeks 3 days ago.
Re: Yammer moving away from Scala
I’m very sorry, but it is not clear to me how I earned this reply. You just stated exactly what I wrote, only that you added an aggressive note.

So, in all form I do apologize, I did not mean to be condescending, I was just pointing out a possible misunderstanding between John and Ken.

Am Sonntag, 4. Dezember 2011 00:22:23 UTC+1 schrieb Josh Suereth:

There are far less condescending ways to make a point.  Messages like this exchange will be moderated for 'tone'.   You'll be given an opportunity to rephrase a post to get your point across.  Different opinions are welcome on the list.  Veiled insults are not.  No matter who they are aimed at.

On Dec 3, 2011 6:05 PM, "rkuhn" <goo [dot] [dot] [dot] [at] rkuhn [dot] info> wrote:
Yes, of course it would. But the motivation was not the point of view but the attitude with which it is displayed.

Regards,

Roland

Am Samstag, 3. Dezember 2011 23:50:00 UTC+1 schrieb John Nilsson:

If you argue for being tolerant against people with a different view point I guess it would be incredibly arrogant to ban people with the "wrong" view point, wouldn't it?

BR,
John

Den 3 dec 2011 20:23 skrev "Kenneth McDonald" <ykk [dot] [dot] [dot] [at] gmail [dot] com>:

The point that he makes that (to me, at least) resonates most strongly relates to the Scala community. I don't know how to fix it, but we really do need to fix it.

It must be possible to create a supportive and welcoming environment for people coming to the language. Right now, the Scala community is nothing like that.

Sadly, I must agree. However, I think it's a fairly small number of people who give this impression. I have posted many inane, newbie questions and received polite, thorough responses from people who I'm sure have better things to do with their time.
So I'm going to call what you've pointed out the "FP" response, though it's not limited to FP, and certainly many hardcore FP-ers don't share this mindset. Because Scala is good at supporting different programming paradigms (FP, Actors, whatever), it can attract people who are locked into those mindsets; and if some of those people decide to move their attitude to the mailing lists, the result is pretty nasty.
I can think of only two responses. I'm reluctant to even suggest the second, but think it must be said:
1) Have Martin periodically post a message reminding everyone that Scala is a multiparadigm language, and asking for tolerance for other points of view.
2) If necessary, banning people from a list. I don't like it, but if the atmosphere on the lists might cause Scala to fail, I think it's worth considering.
Ken

 

John Nilsson
Joined: 2008-12-20,
User offline. Last seen 42 years 45 weeks ago.
Re: Yammer moving away from Scala

I'm not sure I get it either. Was this aimed at all participants in this exange, the last poster in it, past posters of exchanges it hinted at or potential futures excahnges of which it discussed?

In case I came of as condencending I'm sorry. My intent was more of a humorous kind.

BR,
John

Den 4 dec 2011 00:23 skrev "Josh Suereth" <joshua [dot] suereth [at] gmail [dot] com>:

There are far less condescending ways to make a point.  Messages like this exchange will be moderated for 'tone'.   You'll be given an opportunity to rephrase a post to get your point across.  Different opinions are welcome on the list.  Veiled insults are not.  No matter who they are aimed at.

On Dec 3, 2011 6:05 PM, "rkuhn" <google [at] rkuhn [dot] info> wrote:
Yes, of course it would. But the motivation was not the point of view but the attitude with which it is displayed.

Regards,

Roland

Am Samstag, 3. Dezember 2011 23:50:00 UTC+1 schrieb John Nilsson:

If you argue for being tolerant against people with a different view point I guess it would be incredibly arrogant to ban people with the "wrong" view point, wouldn't it?

BR,
John

Den 3 dec 2011 20:23 skrev "Kenneth McDonald" <ykke [dot] [dot] [dot] [at] gmail [dot] com>:

The point that he makes that (to me, at least) resonates most strongly relates to the Scala community. I don't know how to fix it, but we really do need to fix it.

It must be possible to create a supportive and welcoming environment for people coming to the language. Right now, the Scala community is nothing like that.

Sadly, I must agree. However, I think it's a fairly small number of people who give this impression. I have posted many inane, newbie questions and received polite, thorough responses from people who I'm sure have better things to do with their time.
So I'm going to call what you've pointed out the "FP" response, though it's not limited to FP, and certainly many hardcore FP-ers don't share this mindset. Because Scala is good at supporting different programming paradigms (FP, Actors, whatever), it can attract people who are locked into those mindsets; and if some of those people decide to move their attitude to the mailing lists, the result is pretty nasty.
I can think of only two responses. I'm reluctant to even suggest the second, but think it must be said:
1) Have Martin periodically post a message reminding everyone that Scala is a multiparadigm language, and asking for tolerance for other points of view.
2) If necessary, banning people from a list. I don't like it, but if the atmosphere on the lists might cause Scala to fail, I think it's worth considering.
Ken

 

Joshua.Suereth
Joined: 2008-09-02,
User offline. Last seen 32 weeks 5 days ago.
Re: Yammer moving away from Scala

This was aimed at specific posters in the exchange who shall remain nameless.   We're going to moderate posts in an attempt to further the exchange of ideas rather than insults.

If you feel the need to issue a belittling statement, Simply refrain and the internet will be a slightly better place. If you don't realize that a statement is in the category of "belittling" we'll try to help rephrase the thought.

This was not aimed at John or Roland but at earlier emails in the exchange.

On Dec 3, 2011 7:10 PM, "John Nilsson" <john [at] milsson [dot] nu> wrote:

I'm not sure I get it either. Was this aimed at all participants in this exange, the last poster in it, past posters of exchanges it hinted at or potential futures excahnges of which it discussed?

In case I came of as condencending I'm sorry. My intent was more of a humorous kind.

BR,
John

Den 4 dec 2011 00:23 skrev "Josh Suereth" <joshua [dot] suereth [at] gmail [dot] com>:

There are far less condescending ways to make a point.  Messages like this exchange will be moderated for 'tone'.   You'll be given an opportunity to rephrase a post to get your point across.  Different opinions are welcome on the list.  Veiled insults are not.  No matter who they are aimed at.

On Dec 3, 2011 6:05 PM, "rkuhn" <google [at] rkuhn [dot] info> wrote:
Yes, of course it would. But the motivation was not the point of view but the attitude with which it is displayed.

Regards,

Roland

Am Samstag, 3. Dezember 2011 23:50:00 UTC+1 schrieb John Nilsson:

If you argue for being tolerant against people with a different view point I guess it would be incredibly arrogant to ban people with the "wrong" view point, wouldn't it?

BR,
John

Den 3 dec 2011 20:23 skrev "Kenneth McDonald" <ykke [dot] [dot] [dot] [at] gmail [dot] com>:

The point that he makes that (to me, at least) resonates most strongly relates to the Scala community. I don't know how to fix it, but we really do need to fix it.

It must be possible to create a supportive and welcoming environment for people coming to the language. Right now, the Scala community is nothing like that.

Sadly, I must agree. However, I think it's a fairly small number of people who give this impression. I have posted many inane, newbie questions and received polite, thorough responses from people who I'm sure have better things to do with their time.
So I'm going to call what you've pointed out the "FP" response, though it's not limited to FP, and certainly many hardcore FP-ers don't share this mindset. Because Scala is good at supporting different programming paradigms (FP, Actors, whatever), it can attract people who are locked into those mindsets; and if some of those people decide to move their attitude to the mailing lists, the result is pretty nasty.
I can think of only two responses. I'm reluctant to even suggest the second, but think it must be said:
1) Have Martin periodically post a message reminding everyone that Scala is a multiparadigm language, and asking for tolerance for other points of view.
2) If necessary, banning people from a list. I don't like it, but if the atmosphere on the lists might cause Scala to fail, I think it's worth considering.
Ken

 

Joshua.Suereth
Joined: 2008-09-02,
User offline. Last seen 32 weeks 5 days ago.
Re: Yammer moving away from Scala

Humor is OK.  Self-deprecating always better than -insulting others, unless it's Daniel Spiewak, cuz you know...

Again, this was targetted at other statements on this list which lead to the non-exhange of ideas nor were they generally humurous.  This behavior, while overlooked in the past, is no longer acceptable even on scala-debate. 

let's discuss ideas not question each others motives or intelligence.  If you did not intend offense and your post is moderated, we'll help rewrite the thought to come across with the least emotional baggage.

This is in response to Ken's suggestion of blocking users, which will not happen but for extreme cases of repeated social misjudgment and general "trolling".  I'd rather see all view points discussed, but if you cannot behave in a civil fashion, you will be removed from the list.

On Dec 3, 2011 7:10 PM, "John Nilsson" <john [at] milsson [dot] nu> wrote:

I'm not sure I get it either. Was this aimed at all participants in this exange, the last poster in it, past posters of exchanges it hinted at or potential futures excahnges of which it discussed?

In case I came of as condencending I'm sorry. My intent was more of a humorous kind.

BR,
John

Den 4 dec 2011 00:23 skrev "Josh Suereth" <joshua [dot] suereth [at] gmail [dot] com>:

There are far less condescending ways to make a point.  Messages like this exchange will be moderated for 'tone'.   You'll be given an opportunity to rephrase a post to get your point across.  Different opinions are welcome on the list.  Veiled insults are not.  No matter who they are aimed at.

On Dec 3, 2011 6:05 PM, "rkuhn" <google [at] rkuhn [dot] info> wrote:
Yes, of course it would. But the motivation was not the point of view but the attitude with which it is displayed.

Regards,

Roland

Am Samstag, 3. Dezember 2011 23:50:00 UTC+1 schrieb John Nilsson:

If you argue for being tolerant against people with a different view point I guess it would be incredibly arrogant to ban people with the "wrong" view point, wouldn't it?

BR,
John

Den 3 dec 2011 20:23 skrev "Kenneth McDonald" <ykke [dot] [dot] [dot] [at] gmail [dot] com>:

The point that he makes that (to me, at least) resonates most strongly relates to the Scala community. I don't know how to fix it, but we really do need to fix it.

It must be possible to create a supportive and welcoming environment for people coming to the language. Right now, the Scala community is nothing like that.

Sadly, I must agree. However, I think it's a fairly small number of people who give this impression. I have posted many inane, newbie questions and received polite, thorough responses from people who I'm sure have better things to do with their time.
So I'm going to call what you've pointed out the "FP" response, though it's not limited to FP, and certainly many hardcore FP-ers don't share this mindset. Because Scala is good at supporting different programming paradigms (FP, Actors, whatever), it can attract people who are locked into those mindsets; and if some of those people decide to move their attitude to the mailing lists, the result is pretty nasty.
I can think of only two responses. I'm reluctant to even suggest the second, but think it must be said:
1) Have Martin periodically post a message reminding everyone that Scala is a multiparadigm language, and asking for tolerance for other points of view.
2) If necessary, banning people from a list. I don't like it, but if the atmosphere on the lists might cause Scala to fail, I think it's worth considering.
Ken

 

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