This page is no longer maintained — Please continue to the home page at www.scala-lang.org

Can we get the moderators to cross-post to scala-user, for posts they judge of sufficient interest/importance?

6 replies
Ken McDonald
Joined: 2011-02-13,
User offline. Last seen 42 years 45 weeks ago.
I attempt to follow scala-debate, because there are occasionally articles that are of significant importance to the Scala community. However, the group tends to drop off my radar--there is too much junk.
My own experiments in trying to handpick "debatable" topics I thought would still be of interest to the general community were obvious failures. One was maybe a partial success, but maybe that's just me trying to be face saving. I apologize to the scala-user readers who had to go through these, I tried something I thought would work and it didn't.
The problem remains: An occasional article on Scala-debate is worthy of wider readership, but does not get it. I would be quite happy if there were a loose society of trusted individuals who had the authority to post meritorious threads from scala-debate into scala-user. I imagine this would be rare, and of course it couldn't be perfect. I'd appreciate even a highly imperfect system.
Of course, the problem is to get enough (1) trusted individuals who (2) read scala-debate. Can't answer to that one.
I don't know why this is bugging me so much--the only reason I can come up with is that while a learn a great deal from scala-user, and receive a great deal of help from them, there is nothing there that puts me in touch with the "broader context" of Scala and the future. And also I guess I believe, with the proliferation of JVM languages, that Scala is fighting for its life, and I want it to succeed.
Ken
Russ P.
Joined: 2009-01-31,
User offline. Last seen 1 year 26 weeks ago.
Re: Can we get the moderators to cross-post to scala-user, for
Ken,

I don't understand what the problem is here, other than the usual problem of deciding how much email you wish to receive from a group list. If people on scala-user miss some good stuff on scala-debate, that is their choice, and I don't think you need to worry about it.

I have a google account, and for each group that I subscribe to it allows me to conveniently select whether to receive email, an email digest, or no email. If I get tired of email from some group, I just click the email off, and I am still perfectly free to check the group on Google groups whenever the urge strikes me. It's much more convenient than the usual procedure for getting on an off an email list.

Give it a try if you haven't already. The only small caveat is that you will need to sell your soul to Google, and some folks think they are evil. I'm not sure about that yet, but if they ever try to implant a chip in my head, that's where I will draw the line.

--Russ P.


On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 2:13 PM, Kenneth McDonald <ykkenmcd [at] gmail [dot] com> wrote:
I attempt to follow scala-debate, because there are occasionally articles that are of significant importance to the Scala community. However, the group tends to drop off my radar--there is too much junk.
My own experiments in trying to handpick "debatable" topics I thought would still be of interest to the general community were obvious failures. One was maybe a partial success, but maybe that's just me trying to be face saving. I apologize to the scala-user readers who had to go through these, I tried something I thought would work and it didn't.
The problem remains: An occasional article on Scala-debate is worthy of wider readership, but does not get it. I would be quite happy if there were a loose society of trusted individuals who had the authority to post meritorious threads from scala-debate into scala-user. I imagine this would be rare, and of course it couldn't be perfect. I'd appreciate even a highly imperfect system.
Of course, the problem is to get enough (1) trusted individuals who (2) read scala-debate. Can't answer to that one.
I don't know why this is bugging me so much--the only reason I can come up with is that while a learn a great deal from scala-user, and receive a great deal of help from them, there is nothing there that puts me in touch with the "broader context" of Scala and the future. And also I guess I believe, with the proliferation of JVM languages, that Scala is fighting for its life, and I want it to succeed.
Ken



--
http://RussP.us
Ken McDonald
Joined: 2011-02-13,
User offline. Last seen 42 years 45 weeks ago.
Re: Can we get the moderators to cross-post to scala-user, for
This is simply a disagreement as to "important". I'm saying that I don't believe gross grouping by google group satisfy my desires--allowing "scala-debate" allows way too much, while, eliminating "scala-debate" is much too restrictive. I would much prefer a "moderated" feed of "scala-debate", admitting both that the moderation will be imperfect, and that it will be difficult to find moderators.
Heck, if even we could have a few intermittent observers reporting to Martin, I think that would be _great_.
Ken
Philippe Lhoste
Joined: 2010-09-02,
User offline. Last seen 42 years 45 weeks ago.
Re: Can we get the moderators to cross-post to scala-user, for p

On 18/11/2011 23:13, Kenneth McDonald wrote:
> I attempt to follow scala-debate, because there are occasionally
> articles that are of significant importance to the Scala community.
> However, the group tends to drop off my radar--there is too much junk.

I don't know what mail client you use (it doesn't appear in your
headers), but on Thunderbird at least, and probably several other, you
can organize the messages to be threaded. Thus, if a thread is of no
interest for you, just click on the top message, hit R (or other
shortcut for your client) and the whole thread is marked as read without
fuss. N (go to next unread message) will happily skip this thread.

Actually, I even read the lists via Gmane, ie. with NNTP. Thus messages
don't though my mailboxes. (Except occasional CC or private replies,
intended or not.)

> My own experiments in trying to handpick "debatable" topics I thought
> would still be of interest to the general community were obvious
> failures. One was maybe a partial success, but maybe that's just me
> trying to be face saving. I apologize to the scala-user readers who had
> to go through these, I tried something I thought would work and it didn't.
>
> The problem remains: An occasional article on Scala-debate is worthy of
> wider readership, but does not get it. I would be quite happy if there
> were a loose society of trusted individuals who had the authority to
> post meritorious threads from scala-debate into scala-user. I imagine
> this would be rare, and of course it couldn't be perfect. I'd appreciate
> even a highly imperfect system.

Have you numbers indicating the respective readership of scala-user and
scala-debate?
Are you sure that those interested only in -user, perhaps only looking
for concrete solutions and technical information about the language, can
be interested by debates?
Isn't simpler to just point to a potentially interesting thread in
-debate instead of forking on and off to another list? Those following
both lists would have to go though these messages twice...

In general, I find the points you raise interesting, so that's not the
question. But I don't feel that speculations on how Scala should be /
could be / etc. belong to -user.

Just my 0.02 €, of course.

Tim P
Joined: 2011-07-28,
User offline. Last seen 1 year 4 weeks ago.
Re: Re: Can we get the moderators to cross-post to scala-user,

Personally a strong "no" to cross-posting. But if a debate attains
sufficient weight or significance I don't think anyone would complain
about about a quick link with a sentence to describe the subject - if
you think it really warrants it and that people in one are not in the
other. I think it would have to be specific though - not another
"scala is too complex" but maybe "there's a debate about whether the
use of the word pimp is appropriate or not going on in scala-debate"
...

Mostly though if care about the debate then surely debate is the space to be.

Tim

Joshua.Suereth
Joined: 2008-09-02,
User offline. Last seen 32 weeks 5 days ago.
Re: Can we get the moderators to cross-post to scala-user, for


On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 7:01 PM, Kenneth McDonald <ykkenmcd [at] gmail [dot] com> wrote:
This is simply a disagreement as to "important". I'm saying that I don't believe gross grouping by google group satisfy my desires--allowing "scala-debate" allows way too much, while, eliminating "scala-debate" is much too restrictive. I would much prefer a "moderated" feed of "scala-debate", admitting both that the moderation will be imperfect, and that it will be difficult to find moderators.
Heck, if even we could have a few intermittent observers reporting to Martin, I think that would be _great_.c


Who's to say this isn't already the case?

Your general argument is actually rather frustrating to me.  This is what I'm hearing:
"I want lots of people to listen to what I have to say, so I want to post to scala-user because it gets more readership".   
Most of this consider this spamming.  Scala-debate is the place for debates.  This is so that we can *find* conversations later.  Scala debate is for those who wish to hear arguments and discuss ideas.  You can opt-in for these kinds of threads,  It also helps when using google groups when searching for discussion.  scala-user is a place to answer questions.  This is a good place to go to search for answers.   Cross-posting on the wrong list destroys this goal, and is generally considered bad-form.
the behavior on both sides of your recent posts has been disappointing.  The concepts merited a good, friendly discussion.
If someone wants to know about discussions in the scala community and topics upon which not everyone agrees, they can opt-in to listen to Scala-debate.  If folks want techinical problems solved, they opt-into scala-user.   Trying to push your beliefs (however much I may agree with some of them) onto scala-user is bad form.  
I consider the idea of having moderators cross-post discussions as also bad-form.   It ruins the expectations of those who sign up for the mailing list.   Mentioning a post is going on in scala-debate in response to some technical question is ok, but I think the folks of our community are smart enough to decide if they want to read/join in debates without having to fill up their mailbox.
- Josh



Naftoli Gugenheim
Joined: 2008-12-17,
User offline. Last seen 42 years 45 weeks ago.
Re: Can we get the moderators to cross-post to scala-user, for


On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 7:01 PM, Kenneth McDonald <ykkenmcd [at] gmail [dot] com> wrote:
allowing "scala-debate" allows way too much, while, eliminating "scala-debate" is much too restrictive. 

Well, we could split scala-debate into scala-debate and scala-debate-important, and then you could only subscribe to that! (Not serious.)
Another option is, you  can configure gmail so that all emails from scala-debate skip the inbox except those with certain keywords.

Copyright © 2012 École Polytechnique Fédérale de Lausanne (EPFL), Lausanne, Switzerland